spotty lining- have to go over my lines twice

[oz tattoo]

Many times when I am lining, I find that I have to go over my lines twice to get them solid- I use round 7's, 8's, and 9's mostly, and set my ps at 12-14. I've heard both low and high settings for lining and shading- so which is it?? I would think that a higher setting for lining would work best. Also, does my angle have something to do with this?? I'm usually at somewhat of an angle- not quite 45 degrees- but rarely 90 degrees. I've gotten really good at going over my lines again, but it's a real pain in the ass- I move pretty fast & I don't want to have to slow down, nor do I think I should have to to make my lines stick right the first time- I've seen many artist go faster than I do and their work is fine! I want to be great at this- not just good. Can you help me out, pros??? :) Thanks,
Jodink

[framey]

:evil:

[oz tattoo]

OK- so you run lower voltage when lining and higher for shading- I've heard the opposite. I guess I just need to play around & see what works. I'm pretty sure it has to do with my settings...I have only one machine for both lining & shading....can you elaborate on "hand speed to machine speed"?

[framey]

:evil:

[oz tattoo]

thanks man- that's very helpful. How long have you been doing this and did you undergo a "traditional" apprenticeship????

[Papa Gee]

Normally I'll go over an outline quickly so as not to lose my stencil then go back and build up any spotty lines.

Also I've noticed that when doing lower back tribals the oblique (love handle) area skin tends to bounce with the needle. Even thinner people have soft fatty deposits in this area and it makes for a spotty outline and coloring. Make sure you're stretching the skin as much as possible.

Especially in areas with softer skin. IE: Inner arms, lower back, breasts and butt cheeks. Also try to contain your light coat of vaseline only on the area you're working on so you have grip (traction?) against the skin with your off hand fingers for stretching.

[voodoo]

exactly what i was thinking--slow your hand speed down-stretch the skin nice & tight--adjust your machine,r u running it as a short stroker?(cut back liner)
my liner runs at 6volts with a short stroke(1.5mm).and my shader runs at 7 volts with a long stroke(2mm)!

[Madd Chef]

This may not have anything what soever about the dotted lines but I would check the needles too :!: If the soder is too far down the tips they dont hold ink very good. Personal experience: my old boss sodered some needles too close, I used 1 myself it hurt more and was blotchy. So ofcourse I used one that I made and redid it. Hope this helps!

[voodoo]

check for barbs with a loupe (at least 10x!!) :wink:

[olboys]

its hard to say what would help you .but from exper. it sounds like your machine is going to fast or your moving your hand too fast.i have to be there to know for sure.

[oz tattoo]

OK- bare with me- I'm not in a position where I've been exposed to a whole lot of terminology- when you say "stroke" you are referring to how far the needle sticks or "strokes" out of the tube while the machine is running??? Sorry for my ignorance....
Man, I run my machine at 12-13 volts when lining, and turn it down to about 8-9 v when shading & coloring- that's a big difference from what you are doing. It would only make sense to me that the faster that the needle is moving, the more penetration you'd have in the area you are tattooing, which means denser ink in those areas. This isn't so??? I move fairly fast across the skin & I don't want to have to compromise that too much- moving too slow makes it harder for me to get straight linework. I did get to use my new machine last night in conjunction with my new digital ps & there was a huge difference. I still have a lot to learn about my machine settings & how to use my ps to get the best results. For those things alone I really wish I had an expert around to show me the ropes! :roll:

[MedusaQueen]

Now, I'm not too keen on all the tech issues, I myself am still constantly tweaking my machine to find my comfort zone, but I do know that the speed you run it should compensate the speed you pull your line. If you drag them slow and steady, you want your machine a little slower. If you are more comfortable pulling lines faster, your machine should run to keep up with your hand. Also, if you are not stretching well enough, the needle will "jump" and give a dotted line; the best advice I can give is to slow down, stretch till your hand hurts, and feel the machine. It will tell you how fast it needs to be running. Sometimes the best way to save time is to take your time, then you will only have to pull your lines once.

[sundance4725]

Slow down speed comes later anchor your hand firmer and comfortable for your line a line is .a to .b pullskin tight dip run line a short line just .a .b wipe if its not right do another line when sticks right youll feel it your need to stay consistant in depth and use a good black liner ink and try an extra rubber band itll come if u want it bad enough try 7 8 'sAt 9v

[oz tattoo]

Thanks all- I do pull my lines somewhat fast, as not to loose the stencil- plus I find it harder to remain steady if I go too slow. Recently, I've experimented with anywhere from 9-14 volts & it seems that right around 12 is where it feels comfortable for lining. I've also tried to pay closer attention to the angle at which the needle is touching the skin- when I have a 90 degree angle, it seems to take much better, but that is hard as hell to maintain!!! thoughts on angles??

[Papa Gee]

I watched a guy yesterday pull lines in a strange way. At least it looked strange to me. He started at the bottom of the stencil and would pull about an inch and a half line. Then start an inch and a half above that and pull down to connect them. With every pull he would wipe the excess ink away. He must have been riding the tip because he was leaving a big wide trail of ink behind. But with the direction he was working in he wasnt fouling the unworked part of the stencil above. He laid down some nice clean lines too. It looked like he was avoiding pulling a long line by breaking it up in sections all the while keeping the butt of his hand anchored. It was cool though because the area he had outlined was completely smeared with black ink. But above that it was clean stencil.

I stress over losing my stencil so I'm considering practicing the same technique. I also try to keep my needle as close to 90 degrees to the skin as I can while outlining. Especially if I'm using my longer stroke machine. For me, a quick way to blow out a line is to shoot it in at a 45 degree angle and too deep.

[Luckyshot]

anyone else see what size he is using for lining? 7s,8s and 9s
all big enough for shading i me personally if i was using that size grouping i would work on slowing the machine down and working a bit slower,the down fall with bigger groupings is(again for me) is i cant get a good feel for what layer of skin im in besides, your line breaking, im guessing your probably getting incosistancy in line with,,,thin to Fat or even posibly puddles in lines 8s are a great way to get a bold single pass line but the logentivity of a crisp bold using an 8 isnt there,i try not to use anything over 5r for lining,usually 3r but for bold a 5 is perfect,double line anf fill center if you want boulder,and in 5 yrs that line will be ALOT cleaner than the 8r

[Anonymous]

You cannot set your mind with 9-12 volts for lining 6-9 volts for shading or vice versa. You do not need a lot of power to stick a needle in the skin. Some machines need more power then others to stick the needle in the correct depth. Oviously you don't need that much power to stick a single needle then you would a 7 or 8. The more needles you have the more power you will need.
A trick to try would be using your thumb and see how hard the armature bar hits your thumb and imagine that same power trying to stick the amount of needles into the skin...and what type of skin and what area of the body...
Don't go too fast or the lines will start fading with time; don't go too slow or the lines will start spreading within 6-12 months. Don't go too hard or you will hurt them more then necesary...Peace

[BreakinLauZ]

I JUST DID MY FIRST BACK PIECE(NOT TO BIG) TWO DAYA AGO ..NO COLOR YET JUST LINES BUT... SOME LINES CAME OUT DARK AND SOME CAME OUT BARELY THERE ...IS BACK SKIN DIFFERENT DO U HAVE TO STRETCH IT MORE OR WAS I NOT GOING DEEP ENOUGH CONFUSED???? HELP

[Chopper Mike]

This is just what I do. I complete the outline with a One then if it requires a larger group I go over it with that. For me it makes the finnished product look much better. I also run my liner (10 wrap 47f on a Micky SHarpz Iron Telephone Dial) at 7.36 volts ( Eikon EMS 200 Digital Power Supply). You have to take all your equipment by manufacture in mind as well as the model when talking about setting each machine up. I switched to a digital because my anilog gages soon wore out and gave faulse readings. Set yours up to what ever makes it run smoothest as well as coolest. As you know, over volting will burn out your coils and your hand.


But like I said, this is just me.

[oz tattoo]

I also ride the tube- the only time I ever find this to be difficult is when I'm coloring in tribal- I sometimes have to try over & over to get right next to my outline. Don't ask me why...hell, I can start & stop lines in the middle & have no trouble matching them up, but when it comes to jutting up against my outline, it takes a few shots- I suppose I'm just apprehensive about over shooting & then screwing up my outline. I did a tribal this weekend that should have taken an hour to fill in & it took me two- VERY frustrating. It was on the upper chest/front shoulder area, and I swear I tried everything- voltage, angle, depth (which scares me) and the speed at which I made my circular motion- it was a bitch! It'll still need to be touched up even after all of that- I didn't want to overwork the skin. I'm very careful about my depth now- I keep it pretty shallow. I've had a couple more sensitive area tattoos (rib cage, and front shoulder area) where I went too deep & I never want to risk that again. This was before I realized how different skin was in different areas of the body. :oops: