Difficulty in linning big pieces,especially tribal!

[pookie]

Hi everyone,

Ive always had problems getting a nice lnie on skin.
I started with a cutback but moved onto a standard liner which i find better.

I have the needle barely showing with the armature in a rested state because i ride the tube.
I run the machine at 6 volts and sounds nice at that (the machine comes from a very good machine builder who gets all his to run at 6 or below)

I use lining ink but i feel it has nothing to do with regards to the ink because im fine with small pieces its just big pieces,ive included pics of a half sleeve tribal i started which i freehanded on myself.
I can draw but when it comes to skin its pretty difficult.

Many thanks to all in advance

p.s.id put more pics up but im unable to with the small amount of memory allowed.

[the colorist]

Hi everyone,

Ive always had problems getting a nice lnie on skin.
I started with a cutback but moved onto a standard liner which i find better.

I have the needle barely showing with the armature in a rested state because i ride the tube.
I run the machine at 6 volts and sounds nice at that (the machine comes from a very good machine builder who gets all his to run at 6 or below)

I use lining ink but i feel it has nothing to do with regards to the ink because im fine with small pieces its just big pieces,ive included pics of a half sleeve tribal i started which i freehanded on myself.
I can draw but when it comes to skin its pretty difficult.

Many thanks to all in advance

p.s.id put more pics up but im unable to with the small amount of memory allowed.
use photobucket to host your photos,its free and once youve uploaded your photos to there site just copy the url for your photo and paste it in your post.photobucket automatically resizes your photos

[the colorist]

im not fully understanding your question,are the lines broken? scratchy looking? what size needles are you using on bigger pieces?are they liner or shader needles?does your hand speed match your machine speed?

[pookie]

I use either 7L or 5L,it was a 7 on this piece.
I struggle to get nice straight lines that are solid.Plus joining the lines up nicely.
It also doesnt help when ive got the customer moving sometimes and knocking my hand some more.
Anyone got advice on hand positions at all?

Many thanks colourist for your reply

[Rickyboy]

you have to put the link with out your name attached--

[stetat2]

Hi everyone,

Ive always had problems getting a nice lnie on skin.
I started with a cutback but moved onto a standard liner which i find better.

I have the needle barely showing with the armature in a rested state because i ride the tube.
I run the machine at 6 volts and sounds nice at that (the machine comes from a very good machine builder who gets all his to run at 6 or below)

I use lining ink but i feel it has nothing to do with regards to the ink because im fine with small pieces its just big pieces,ive included pics of a half sleeve tribal i started which i freehanded on myself.
I can draw but when it comes to skin its pretty difficult.

Many thanks to all in advance

p.s.id put more pics up but im unable to with the small amount of memory allowed.
sorry about this but ----a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. put the tattoo machine away and go back to your dayjob. " ive always had a problem with lines on skin"??????? well DONT TATTOO PEOPLE.. the lines are not nice at all. stop tattooing people right now and go back to fruit and stuff, read most or all of the relevant back posts and then if you must try again.but not on a person.
I'm surprised no-one else has told you this.

[ink_freak]

i agree bro thats a big ass piece to take on this early for u man start small and draw to get used to long continuous lines and im not nocking u or trying to disrespect u i just think that if i was that dude id be a little up set take ur time and get used to ur machine before taking on someones whole body man be careful what u decide to tattoo on people even though you can lay down ink in a pigs ass or on a fruit ppl are different man and u start small to get used to it man

[voodoo]

smaller is better when u first start out!

[carl]

listen to the pros dude,
dont tattoo any1 else until your outlines are sorted,
shit ive been tattooing for nearly 2 years and i wouldnt dream of doing a tattoo that big if i was just learning,and if i did id definatly get ya lining technique sorted first.

im not having a pop but dude that outline looks scary,painful and looks to me like the needle might of been too deeep by the way its bleeding and raised.

put the machine down,get some fruit to practice some more.
do you even know how to setup your machine properly?

AN OUTLINE will make or break the tattoo,dont think just cos the lines are black and the design is black that you can just descize the lines when you colour it because trust me it dont work.

tried and tested dont work.
bottom line is a tattoo is only as good as the outline,
get ya lining sorted out mate,
we are all here for tips and knowledge from pros that are tattooing alot longer than us so dont be dis heartened by the replies you get.
you asked for help and were all helping you.
if i went to some1 and left with outlines like that on such a big peice or small i beat the holy crap into whoever done it.

trust me.
carl

[unforgiven]

ok question? but first you stated: "Like i said in the 1st post i have the needle barely showing if at all when the armature bars in a rested state."
here's the question, were you riding the tip of the tube? ie: the tip was resting on the skin as you pulled your lines. if so having the needle "barely showing" with the a bar at rest im going to assume that you damn near hit bone with them needles!!! in my limited amount of experience anyways. did you run the machine prior to adding ink? if so, how far were the needles out of the tube at full stroke? i use a bright light over a white surface to hold my machine over to check this, because this will ultimately be the depth of your needle. just my 2 bits and a couple questions.

[Rickyboy]

the needle should be about 1/16th of an inch leaving the tube!!!

[pookie]

When i put the tube on i look till the needles showing then put it back to where its right behind the tip, i dont have it sticking out as i prefer to ride the tip.
This is how i had it set up for the tribal piece,if it was sticking out slightly it would have snagged at the skin (or am i wrong at everything i say?)

Like i say i appreciate all the feedback from everyone and i will stick with my small pieces for now.
My lines are perfect on fruit and paper,i'll post pics if you want....what else is there to practice on?

Thanks again guys

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/45ffb023.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/01ab0114.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/2d68145a.jpg

feel free to comment on theses pieces if you want,theyve all healed up perfect.

[FatFreddyFreekowtski]

Eek.

I wouldn't touch human skin until every line I throw down is flawless.

[black raven]

Eek.

I wouldn't touch human skin until every line I throw down is flawless.

tattooing is not an exact science, i have been tattooing for 15 years and strive for perfection everyday but way too many factors play into nice lines , color etc., like the particular needle you are using,( i use premaids , some run really well, some dont) the clients skin, (for those of you who have tattooed around or on the eblow or ribcage know what i mean) how well they sit,
and how well they take care of it while its healing. i don't mean to sound derogatory but this is the way it is, don't set your standards for perfection to high., your gonna be real disappointed down the road,,,, just my opinion.... you can tattoo all the fake skin , pigs or whatever you want, nothing beats experience on real skin, its alive and not sitting on a desk top being moved around at the right angle so you can pull a line. . every great artist i know has had "less than perfect" lines when they first started, the only way to get better is experience on skin. you'll see.
pookies lines, tattoos (the small ones) look pretty clean to me. nice job.

[the colorist]

When i put the tube on i look till the needles showing then put it back to where its right behind the tip, i dont have it sticking out as i prefer to ride the tip.
This is how i had it set up for the tribal piece,if it was sticking out slightly it would have snagged at the skin (or am i wrong at everything i say?)

Like i say i appreciate all the feedback from everyone and i will stick with my small pieces for now.
My lines are perfect on fruit and paper,i'll post pics if you want....what else is there to practice on?

Thanks again guys

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/45ffb023.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/01ab0114.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/2d68145a.jpg

feel free to comment on theses pieces if you want,theyve all healed up perfect.
nice work,lines look clean and consistent

[the colorist]

tattooing is not an exact science, i have been tattooing for 15 years and strive for perfection everyday but way too many factors play into nice lines , color etc., like the the particular needle you are using,( i use premaids , some run really well, some dont) the clients skin, (for those of you who have tattooed around or on the eblow or ribcage know what i mean) how well they sit,
and how well they take care of it while its healing. i don't mean to sound derogatory but this is the way it is, don't set your standards for perfection to high., your gonna be real disappointed down the road,,,, just my opinion.... you can tattoo all the fake skin , pigs or whatever you want, nothing beats experience on real skin, its alive and not sitting on a desk top being moved around at the right angle so you can pull a line. . every great artist i know has had "less than perfect" lines when they first started, the only way to get better is experience on skin. you'll see.
pookies lines, tattoos (the small ones) look pretty clean to me. nice job.
well said raven,my thoughts exactly,freddy,if you dont touch real skin until ur lines are flawless then you never will.like raven said it comes from experience with the real thing.people move and squirm, that alone can ruin the "perfect" line.but with experience youd know how to repair it

[FatFreddyFreekowtski]

Well, maybe I never will, then ;)

I dunno, that big piece, with the giant blobs at the tips of the intersections of lines, eek

[the colorist]

I use either 7L or 5L,it was a 7 on this piece.
I struggle to get nice straight lines that are solid.Plus joining the lines up nicely.
It also doesnt help when ive got the customer moving sometimes and knocking my hand some more.
Anyone got advice on hand positions at all?

Many thanks colourist for your reply
a lil trick i taught myself .if you have to stop a line midway from its ending point,when you return to the line,begin it maybe a 1/8-1/16 of a inch back of where your first line ended,then run from there to its ending point,that way the line doesnt look broken or staggered.also lift up and out of the line as you come close to its ending point.like grafx and a few others have said,like a airplane taking off

[the colorist]

Well, maybe I never will, then ;)

I dunno, that big piece, with the giant blobs at the tips of the intersections of lines, eek
which one,the backpiece? im not trying to be combative freddy,im just saying that the very act of tattooing a living person can render all of your flawless techniques inept,people move, squirm, wiggle, bitch ,moan and some even smack your tattooing hand.nothing beats trial and error on skin,and the skin type will vary from person to person,another factor to consider.the lower back can be daunting to tattoo

[black raven]

granted we don't want sudden stops or blobs in our lines but it is a piece of tribal on his back, this is a great way to practice lines, you fuck it up a little hear or there, sculpt it out a little with your shader on the bad parts., as long as its gonna be all solid black. you will cover it up anyway. just like my main man colorist was talking about....

[black raven]

which one,the backpiece? im not trying to be combative freddy,im just saying that the very act of tattooing a living person can render all of your flawless techniques inept,people move, squirm, wiggle, bitch ,moan and some even smack your tattooing hand.nothing beats trial and error on skin,and the skin type will vary from person to person,another factor to consider.the lower back can be daunting to tattoo
yea, lower backs on chicks with no tattoos, most sit well actually, some dont... i sit them on a bar stool and have them lean forward against on my regular chair, when they start squirming, i call this "stool surfing" ass starts moving left , right....you know....lol

[ink_freak]

i agree about the practice on real skin but that is a big back piece that he jumped in to i believe though that the ability to fix lil f ups makes us the artist but if u work into things u can easily prevent those f-ups i am not the greatest tattooist maybe not even average but i dont try to bite off more than i know that i can chew after 6-yrs and a great teacher i still wouldnt attempt some ones whole shoulder and arm its about pacing ur self and advancing in the art while building confidence in ur self and what u r doing and by trying some thing out of my league i cause problems for me and the client i gradually work my way into bigger pieces im not saying i havent done big pieces but ive been working my way up for many years but over all i agree with the colorist and raven about fruit and pig and paper it dont bitch!

[Rickyboy]

I personally agree with Ink Freak , as he should work on more smaller designs and then slowly progress into big pieces, I have actually turned down huge tattoos , cuz i dont feel that im ready yet!!! It doesn tlook that bad tho,, just could use some touch up !!:)

[pookie]

Thanks for the input guys,

Like i mentioned i realise i shouldnt have jumped into a big piece but i thought no different of it from a small piece.
Im easily able to tighten it up when the colours done and least my colour heals solid and consistent.

The 'blobs' in the corners of the outline are where i filled with the outline so there wouldnt be a chance of giving it blunt ends when filling in, because it was left a while during the time i was colouring the arm it had obviously bled and the bit of blood had dried up.
I'll be sticking with the small pieces for a few years though guys so thanks for your input!

[FatFreddyFreekowtski]

which one,the backpiece? im not trying to be combative freddy,im just saying that the very act of tattooing a living person can render all of your flawless techniques inept,people move, squirm, wiggle, bitch ,moan and some even smack your tattooing hand.nothing beats trial and error on skin,and the skin type will vary from person to person,another factor to consider.the lower back can be daunting to tattoo

Hey, I learned something new. Not considering anything anyone's said combative.

[ink_freak]

good luck pookie as i said work into it bro u will know when ur ready

[pookie]

Thanks ink freak and everyone else for your replies, much appreciatted!
Oh by the way colourist....really like the rose you did with the black backdrop.
Nice to see something different from the norm.

[the colorist]

good luck pookie as i said work into it bro u will know when ur ready
just my opinion,i think hes already there.the backpiece looks clean to me,considering its location and his rendering of it.if you want to add more defined points try using a flat shader sideways to form the point

[the colorist]

Thanks ink freak and everyone else for your replies, much appreciatted!
Oh by the way colourist....really like the rose you did with the black backdrop.
Nice to see something different from the norm.
lol thats not black.its a neutral gray i mixed myself.there is no black at all in the rose tattoo

[pookie]

I know theres no black in the rose itself but i could have sworn you'd got black as a backdrop....let me go check it out again.
Ace work all the same though!

[Ripshado]

TRIAL AND ERROR ALL THE WAY...

Hopefully... more trial....then error.

I look back at tats I've done on people when i was 16 ..and go DAMNNNNN that sucks my salty chocolate bohlz... but hey...

In the end... Like Color and Raven said.. the live thing is always best. and hopefully..someday... youll get to be as good as you hope to be...and FIX and COVER UP all the crap you did years before haha..

Good work by the way...

wow..i just looked up at how old these posts are haha..
DOH... welp...better late then never :)

[the colorist]

TRIAL AND ERROR ALL THE WAY...

Hopefully... more trial....then error.

I look back at tats I've done on people when i was 16 ..and go DAMNNNNN that sucks my salty chocolate bohlz... but hey...

In the end... Like Color and Raven said.. the live thing is always best. and hopefully..someday... youll get to be as good as you hope to be...and FIX and COVER UP all the crap you did years before haha..

Good work by the way...

wow..i just looked up at how old these posts are haha..
DOH... welp...better late then never :)
very well said! NOTHING beats experience.thanx
jerred

[pookie]

Not to old a post...i think lol
Well ive gone back to small pieces now,except of course for the big tribal.
Ive nearly finished it but dont think it will be done for a couple more months yet as i cant get the spare time in.
I'll post pics after its done.
Thanks again guys

[needles]

sorry about this but ----a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. put the tattoo machine away and go back to your dayjob. " ive always had a problem with lines on skin"??????? well DONT TATTOO PEOPLE.. the lines are not nice at all. stop tattooing people right now and go back to fruit and stuff, read most or all of the relevant back posts and then if you must try again.but not on a person.
I'm surprised no-one else has told you this.
sorry i have to agree with this..

[pookie]

Needles,
i.e. lines on big pieces,this is why i started on the tribal.
Never had problems on smaller pieces.
Im sorry but theres lots of other posts saying there having trouble with there lines and they just get support,i put a pic up and i get slaughtered.
Ive taken the advice and as mentioned several times im sticking with my smaller pieces till im 'ready'

[the colorist]

sorry i have to agree with this..
pookie i still stand by what i said,trial and error,go slow ,study other tattooist work.attend a convention if you can.what you have done on that tribal can be corrected,and i think you can do it.if some had there way youd be tattooing fruit for 20yrs.youve already taken the step to skin,no turning back.be safe,see if anyone in the forum lives near you , try sitting in on a tattoo session.for all of you doubters,wheres your work?
and if you have machine questions talk to forgiven,framey,raven etc

[ink_freak]

i may have been a lil hard on you too man i never meant to dis courage you or slaughter your work trust me i have done worse before but i didnt give up move on take it slow dude you know your own limits remember CONFIDENCE mean a hell of alot when u sit down to tattoo and youl be fine dont forget we will be glad to help you in anyway keep on keeping on! good luck bro

[pookie]

Ive been to a couple of conventions and sat in on two artists working.
As for my cleaniness,i posted some pics in the general discussion but i'll post them here again.

Thought i may aswell post another pic of my first foot tattoo ive done.
Its not finished yet but man talk about difficult with all the flinching lol decided to freehand this design as i couldnt find anything to fit it nice.

Thanks again guys.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/b9b878b3.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/ebe50aaf.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/be8954cc.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/anft4.jpg

[the colorist]

Ive been to a couple of conventions and sat in on two artists working.
As for my cleaniness,i posted some pics in the general discussion but i'll post them here again.

Thought i may aswell post another pic of my first foot tattoo ive done.
Its not finished yet but man talk about difficult with all the flinching lol decided to freehand this design as i couldnt find anything to fit it nice.

Thanks again guys.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/b9b878b3.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/ebe50aaf.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/be8954cc.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j69/cornell1982/anft4.jpg
i knew you were capable from seeing your tribal piece,this just confirms it.good going!

[Martin]

nice job man,
nice little shop you got going on too.

[pookie]

Thanks guys,i just wanted to prove that im also doing everything by the book aswell.
While ive got you guys attention....i started a lotus flower last week on the lower bk of a women (only a small standard size) yet it took me 2 hours to outline because she couldnt cope!
On top of that she was jumping and flinching which has left me a job to clean up the lines better next time.
Have any of you guys got tips on coping better with the flinchers?
Im just hoping shes better with the colouring

p.s.colourist,did you get my message on yahoo?

Martin, up most respect to you for what your doing for your country!

[the colorist]

Thanks guys,i just wanted to prove that im also doing everything by the book aswell.
While ive got you guys attention....i started a lotus flower last week on the lower bk of a women (only a small standard size) yet it took me 2 hours to outline because she couldnt cope!
On top of that she was jumping and flinching which has left me a job to clean up the lines better next time.
Have any of you guys got tips on coping better with the flinchers?
Im just hoping shes better with the colouring

p.s.colourist,did you get my message on yahoo?

Martin, up most respect to you for what your doing for your country!
no i think i missed it,pm me with it,also,lower backs are tricky because of the contours of the spine,from looking at your work you might be pressing down too much when you outline,are you running from the tip of the tip or the tip of the needle? give your outlining a lighter touch.let the needle do the work,you just guide it.hope this helps

[Inkslngr]

Have any of you guys got tips on coping better with the flinchers?

Ah yes rodeo tattooing, not fun at all, you need to develope cat like reflexes. But seriously we are only human, you have to nicely remind your client to keep still as this is going to be permanent. if they keep moving just do the best you can. or duct tape them to the chair.

[Martin]

make it hurt more when they flinch. ha ha

just kidding

[pookie]

Tell me about it, im trying to do a good job and its mission impossible at times!
Ive always sat well but then not everyones the same lol

[ink_freak]

after awhile u can kinda tell when some one is about to jerk so u know when to pull away .........for me at least

[the colorist]

Have any of you guys got tips on coping better with the flinchers?

Ah yes rodeo tattooing, not fun at all, you need to develope cat like reflexes. But seriously we are only human, you have to nicely remind your client to keep still as this is going to be permanent. if they keep moving just do the best you can. or duct tape them to the chair.
talk to them,get there mind distracted,explain to them the more they flinch the more that has to be fixed,and the more it will cost.give them a mantra or a object to concentrate on.and like ink freak said,its all about touch,you'll come to know when they will flinch and can anticipate it and pull back.if it gets too bad tell them if they persist then your done and no refund.that works too,lol

[Martin]

I agree. Also if you have a tv in the room, you could pop in a movie for them to have something else to concentrate on.