passing out

[undercover art]

Anyone had a client pass out? I've had two, both freaked me out. On the first one, Itried waking her for a while, then got scared about her chocking on her tongue, so I pried her mouth open with my hands and moved her tongue out of her windpipe, well.....she took a huge gasping breath (finally) and promptly bit down on my finger. Fuckin Crushed It! then she woke up and said "what happened?" I told her, and she couldn't beleive she had been out that long. I didn't know if I should post this in the Joke section or the emergency section.

[FORGIVEN]

i had a guy pass out when i put the stencil on ..keep some O.J. handy ...maybe some hard candy ..it happens ...first thing i was taught "dont let em' hit the floor !!"

[jadefoodog]

its normally from bloodsugar dropping . you can keep packets of sugar nearby most people keep glucose tablets but with sugar packets you can put it in while they are out and it will disolve and start reacing faster


i bloodsugar drop is useually from nerveousness or not being prepared if they stop getting wobbly or feel sick dont let them get up and get ready to get a damp paper towel and some sugar

like i said if they start feeling sick they will wnat to get up but dont let them its a good way to have a busted head in your shop . just let them chill out in the chair (make them if nessisary)

its something that happens in both peircing and tattoos. you cant prevent it but you can be oprepared for it . thats why when setting up your room for tattoos you position yourself between the sink and the client so you have a faster response time than having to go around them

[jadefoodog]

ps dont use your finger thats why god made tounge depressors .

[STARMedic]

Anyone had a client pass out? I've had two, both freaked me out. On the first one, Itried waking her for a while, then got scared about her chocking on her tongue, so I pried her mouth open with my hands and moved her tongue out of her windpipe, well.....she took a huge gasping breath (finally) and promptly bit down on my finger. Fuckin Crushed It! then she woke up and said "what happened?" I told her, and she couldn't beleive she had been out that long. I didn't know if I should post this in the Joke section or the emergency section.


You just learned first hand why Medic's dont ever do blind finger sweeps. Best thing you can do is a Trauma Jaw Thrust......Since I cant post pics in the thread I cant really explain it well, but basically amounts to left and right hand on left and right side of the patient's head thumbs meeting in the center of the forehead, index fingers and middle fingers on perpendicular sides of the mandibular notch, or spot where the jaw bone forms a right angle. Once this is in place you use the thumbs as a lever, pressing in and up with the middle fingers and out with the index fingers. Properly applied hurts worse than a fuking kung fu grip, opens the airway, and maintains and protects the c spine in case they have fallen.

HTH,

Bruce

[maxauto]

great advise star medic but would you still do it that way even if you had a tongue depressor on hand?? or is that just to get the jaw open and then use the depressor? and what about smelling salt couldnt you just use some of that if its an obvious pass out from sugar levels??

[STARMedic]

great advise star medic but would you still do it that way even if you had a tongue depressor on hand?? or is that just to get the jaw open and then use the depressor? and what about smelling salt couldnt you just use some of that if its an obvious pass out from sugar levels??


Not bein a dick Max but I will use your statement to educate. First off the only way you can know that they passed out from sugar levels, either Hypoglycemia, too low, or Hyperglycemia, too high, is by performing a Blood Glucose check via finger stick, and I dont know of any shops that do that, or keep a Glucometer on hand, Cept for some of the artist's who may be diabetic themselves. I would advise against sticking anything into an unconscious persons mouth less it be an oropharyngeal airway. Reason being if you stick a wooden tongue depressor into someone's mouth and they clamp down they can either break the wooden object or the object may break teeth creating an airway obstruction that could require direct laryngoscopy to remove. The reason for the Trauma Jaw Thrust is threefold. One, it opens the airway, two, it protects the c spine by keeping the head and neck in a neutral in line position, and three it will wake the dead when applied properly so that you can check their level of consciousness.

Nuther question, if your patient is unconscious, how much sugar, candy, gluco tabs, or other stuff do you put into their mouth before you creat an airway obstruction, and or determine that the problem is not directly related to low blood sugar....?

High or Low blood glucose levels are part of the problem, glucose are one of the few molecules that can cross the blood brain barrier and work to transport O2 to the brain and maintain cerebral perfusion.....So, the end process creating the unconscious person is not enough O2 to maintain perfusion of the melon. Adding glucose to a deficient person will increase the amount of O2 goin across the barrier, adding glucose to a patient who has a hyperglycemic condition will not make more O2 go across the barrier. If the patient is in fact hyperglycemic, they may be having many other problems, one of which is Diabetic Ketoacidosis......Are they unconscious, but panting like a dog, with deep rapid respirations, are they flushed and hot, did they vomit?

One simple thing to remember that will help you out.....

Hot and Dry = Sugar High
Cold and Clammy = Give them candy

The most important thing is to figure out why the melon doesnt have enuf O2, and fix it, not creating an airway obstruction in the process....

Like I said definitely not picking on anyone, and I hope I havent offended, I just try to lay it out the way I would for anyone I teach.

Bruce

[TonyTouchTat2]

Not bein a dick Max but I will use your statement to educate. First off the only way you can know that they passed out from sugar levels, either Hypoglycemia, too low, or Hyperglycemia, too high, is by performing a Blood Glucose check via finger stick, and I dont know of any shops that do that, or keep a Glucometer on hand, Cept for some of the artist's who may be diabetic themselves. I would advise against sticking anything into an unconscious persons mouth less it be an oropharyngeal airway. Reason being if you stick a wooden tongue depressor into someone's mouth and they clamp down they can either break the wooden object or the object may break teeth creating an airway obstruction that could require direct laryngoscopy to remove. The reason for the Trauma Jaw Thrust is threefold. One, it opens the airway, two, it protects the c spine by keeping the head and neck in a neutral in line position, and three it will wake the dead when applied properly so that you can check their level of consciousness.

Nuther question, if your patient is unconscious, how much sugar, candy, gluco tabs, or other stuff do you put into their mouth before you creat an airway obstruction, and or determine that the problem is not directly related to low blood sugar....?

High or Low blood glucose levels are part of the problem, glucose are one of the few molecules that can cross the blood brain barrier and work to transport O2 to the brain and maintain cerebral perfusion.....So, the end process creating the unconscious person is not enough O2 to maintain perfusion of the melon. Adding glucose to a deficient person will increase the amount of O2 goin across the barrier, adding glucose to a patient who has a hyperglycemic condition will not make more O2 go across the barrier. If the patient is in fact hyperglycemic, they may be having many other problems, one of which is Diabetic Ketoacidosis......Are they unconscious, but panting like a dog, with deep rapid respirations, are they flushed and hot, did they vomit?

One simple thing to remember that will help you out.....

Hot and Dry = Sugar High
Cold and Clammy = Give them candy

The most important thing is to figure out why the melon doesnt have enuf O2, and fix it, not creating an airway obstruction in the process....

Like I said definitely not picking on anyone, and I hope I havent offended, I just try to lay it out the way I would for anyone I teach.

Bruce

Good Stuff Bruce. You definately earned yourself a beer bro!!!

[maxauto]

One simple thing to remember that will help you out.....

Hot and Dry = Sugar High
Cold and Clammy = Give them candy

The most important thing is to figure out why the melon doesnt have enuf O2, and fix it, not creating an airway obstruction in the process....

Like I said definitely not picking on anyone, and I hope I havent offended, I just try to lay it out the way I would for anyone I teach.

Bruce
thats why i asked you cause i knew i would get the right answer.
very well said, especially if i can understand it ...lol....which i do.
fortunately i havent had any pass outs yet, if or when i do i will be more prepared knowing this and thats what i hoped for, a straight forward answer.
i honestly appreciate it thank you. i am happy to have someone like you
around here, you help more people than you know.:)

[undercover art]

I always tell everyone to eat big before their appointment. I think it's the panic, not the pain that gets em also.

[amoroque]

I was tattooing one of my buddies right around his niple and he passed out. he tried to stand up as he was passing out. He weighs about 300 pounds and I was about 135 at the time so it was a bitch holding him up, so I just held him up against the wall until my other buddies could come in to lower him down to the ground gently.
luckily he woke up really soon, wanted to eat then we finished the tat.

[rot & roll]

is this how you do it bruce?

http://www.aic.cuhk.edu.hk/web8/Modified%20jaw%20thrust.htm

[voodoo]

It's also a pressure point.....Kung fu grip for sure!

[kellyink]

starmedic is absolutly correct....when you guys do tattoos you need to pay attention to the client, as much as the tattoo its self.

there are usually signs that are apperent in both situations..

Hypoglycemic: the blood-sugar levels drop; they begin to sweat alot, and act almost as if they are intoxicated. they will try to fight this feeling, one by pulling away when you go to set the needle in the skin (natural reaction). two they tend to move around alot, and tell you to hold on a minute, by this time you should have already taken notice the difference in behavior, and act upon it.

Hyperglycemic: the blood-sugar levels go up; almost the same as Hypo, except they do not sweat. they tend to think its hot, they become very thirsty, and absent-minded. they will get very figgity, and could in most cases get violent.

for either case you want to catch it before they the go out.
like starmedic stated...try to avoid the hard candy, unless they are still conscious.
your best bet is, if on hand, give them either O.J, or milk with sugar in it, and be ready to call 911 if you cant get it controled.

most of this is from experience. my mother-in-law, was diebetic (insulin dependant) from the age of 15. i've seen first hand, both cases. on one ocassion she sky-rocketed, we couldn't get it controled. called 911 they got her to the hospital, and her blood-sugar level was extremely high, it was 1200, the doctors said it was a miracle she didnt go into diebetic coma...but she was lucky and was able to get a kidney, and pancreas transplant, and has been living a diebetic free life for almost 2 years.

i am not an expert in this, these are just things i have witnessed.

[STARMedic]

And please pardon me for saying this.....But despite what some other fukin moron on another forum says about seizing patients and sticking your fingers in their mouths when they vomit......

If you want to keep your fingers.....Dont stick them in someones mouth......A seizing patient will easily bite straight through a finger (at the joint) or at best render it pretty much useless when they click into trismus cause you stuck your hands in their mouths to clean the vomit out and stimulated a response......


I was gonna post it on the other forum......But just dont give a fuck about their people.....

(Walks away shakin head)..........

Bruce

[B.Mullins]

I was gonna post it on the other forum......But just dont give a fuck about their people.....

(Walks away shakin head)..........

Bruce

Haha,i dont blame ya,if they arent smart enough to realize this is the best damn forum out there,then they got issues anyway.

[L_Pease]

You just learned first hand why Medic's dont ever do blind finger sweeps. Best thing you can do is a Trauma Jaw Thrust......Since I cant post pics in the thread I cant really explain it well, but basically amounts to left and right hand on left and right side of the patient's head thumbs meeting in the center of the forehead, index fingers and middle fingers on perpendicular sides of the mandibular notch, or spot where the jaw bone forms a right angle. Once this is in place you use the thumbs as a lever, pressing in and up with the middle fingers and out with the index fingers. Properly applied hurts worse than a fuking kung fu grip, opens the airway, and maintains and protects the c spine in case they have fallen.

HTH,

BruceI don't know if I would necessarily give out advice such as this because someone is going to try it sometime and most like have no clue about proper application and probably hurt somebody or dislocate a jaw. Gotta' protect yourself Bruce. People are far too quick to sue these days.

[L_Pease]

Bruce, you gave out good info for those who haven't experienced this yet. This is one of the reasons you really NEED shop experience before tackling tattooing on your own. You never think of the what ifs until they happen and you have no clue what to do. People will pass out on you sooner or later. Since 1994 I have had probably between 8-10 people go out on me (one guy alone 4 times). I worked with a guy that had at least one or two a week, but he was pretty heavy handed too.

I always keep an amonia inhalant on my counter ready to go and a box in one of my drawers. You should be able to tell when a client is about to go out. You can feel it with your stretching hand and you should keep conversation with them while tattooing so you can tell how they are doing. I make a point of asking how a client is feeling every 15-20 minutes also. If I notice someone is not quite right I'll stop and pop the inhalant before they go out. You'd be surprised how those little things snap you right back to reality. When I was still playing hockey we'd keep them on the bench and pop them just to clear out the cobwebs between shifts every so often or after a good hit. Instant clarity. Anyway, you should take a mental picture of the client's color before you begin so you have a baseline to compare their color to. They will usually go ghost white and chalky looking or turn a very olive shade just before they go out. Slurred speech or some really random, off the wall statements are a sign also. NEVER ever continue working on an unconscious person!!! There's no shame in passing out and this should be stressed before you start the tattoo. Let them know it's okay to speak up if they feel a little funny. Don't heckle them or belittle them. I've seen fully sleeved guys go out at conventions while getting seemingly simple tattoos. EVERYONE has their magic spot. I've found that once you catch it, or once they've recovered from passing out, there usually is no further issue with finishing. Most people are fine once they recover, assuming you can get them to finish. DO NOT EVER stick your fingers in their mouth!!! Be prepared for anything as some people go into seizures while out and that can be a little unnerving. Stay calm and react smart. Panic will solve nothing.

I tell people to be sure and eat a good full meal and hour prior to getting work done. Keep hydrated and if you're in a touristy area, be aware of how fatigued they may already be from sight-seeing. Also, sun exposure and physical exertion prior to getting tattooed will often lead to passing out so be sure to ask questions before working on them. Get to know them a bit and talk about their day. Detective work will pay off in the event there is any sort of abnormal activity.

[rot & roll]

I don't know if I would necessarily give out advice such as this because someone is going to try it sometime and most like have no clue about proper application and probably hurt somebody or dislocate a jaw. Gotta' protect yourself Bruce. People are far too quick to sue these days.

...all the more reason to get some kind of formal training in such situations... most people would react to help in some way. Best to cover your own arse from the legal scum despite the fact that you are actually just trying to help. $0.02

[voodoo]

But, U could also get into hot water for not doing anything...

[icuJoZ]

I have never had anyone actually pass out on me before.....came close a couple of times.... Once the guy stated that he really needed to pee, we were almost finished with the tat....he was not sweating.....or acting funny in any way...so I never thought twice about it....I just told him to make sure that he washed his hands before he came back.....He got up and headed for the bathroom.....made it fine to the bathroom.....BUT took forever while he was in there....came back to the chair and said that he puked while he was in there....I asked him if he was okay to finish up.....and he said he was fine.....we had about ten minutes where I asked him that same question several times, in fact he almost got pissed at me for not going ahead...BUT I wanted to make sure that he was feeling okay....and then we proceeded....Took me about fifteen minutes to finish him up and he was fine the whole time that remained. Then there was another one....got the stencil on and was letting it sit....I got my machine all rigged up.....set my settings on my PS.... and hit the machine to see how it sounded......man....she started hyperventilating and tried to sit up......I sat my machine down and told her to lay back down, that we would give it a few minutes.....after talking her down and telling her that if she was not feeling up to this it was fine, she calmed down....and finally decided that she was not up for the tat.....and to this day she has not come back.....I wonder if I put the stencil on to hard...lol.....naugh just kidding......those were my two close calls.

[STARMedic]

If Chris and the other admin's dont see the legal liability of me showing some basic skills, I feel that I can get the people from THIS site to understand clearly these basic skills, other sites Im not so sure of. Im not trying to establish an US vs THEM thing, however I feel that the membership here for some reason has a higher level of comprehension and cognitive reasoning.

Truthfully tho, as long as we all abide by the philosophy of "Do no further harm".....we will be good to go.

My life as a Professional Rescuer is riddled with lawsuits....

Im currently being sued by an Illegal Mexican drug runner here in the US courts system, because we pronounced his partner dead on scene and saved the lives of the human cargo he was transporting and they are now federal witnesses testifying against them....Imagine that.....

If I or any of my team goes in the water to initiate a "Live Bait" style recovery in the swiftwater setting, and makes contact with the patient, and lets say gets struck in the head by the large debris that is being swept down river from the rapid water, and loses contact with the patient.....We are automatically guilty of abandoning the patient.....Imagine that....

All this considering the average Home Depot cashier gets paid more than we do....

The link for the Jaw Thrust was dead on, be careful applying this.....I suggest using your apprentice to practice on....

Im gonna work on doing some basic videos in the shop setting and if Chris says its ok I will post them here or somewhere in relation to the site...It will be shit like Hyper and Hypoglycemia, Seizures, Falls, and whatever else I can find that relates to safety in your shops...And what you need to do to ensure the best possible outcome for your clients.....

Bruce

[L_Pease]

I knew when I posted on this thread that I was going to jinx myself. Whammo!!! My last appointment to day tells me "I don't like needles" so I told him "then don't look hahaha" just as he turns away... he started getting a nice olive green face. His nose and cheek bones first, then his whole face and I popped the inhalant just as his eyes shut. A cold compress, some Gatorade and about 10 minutes later he finished no problem. Just for future reference, I am not discussing this again...jinxed a perfectly good almost 5 year span of no passing out hahaha.

[rot & roll]

Starmedic... suprprise surprise... another underpaid medical professional!! i see thats a universal phenomonon...

L_Pease that is fuckin funnny! I've probably jinxed myself by bumping the thread in the first place. I can see it now... my first client... collapsing in a convulsing, finger bighting, vomiting heap and shits its self?!! haha (nervous laughter) :???:

the only reason i bumped this thread is i didn't quite understand the writin explaination of the Jaw Thrust. Found that pic and wanted to check up on it. In any case, i'm signing up for a st john's first aid course. shit... with my feral kids fallin off bikes, roofs and trampolines i bloody need it regardless

cheers

[STARMedic]

Wait til they are jumpin the bikes off the roof onto the trampoline cause they saw it on the X Games......

[rot & roll]

...or worse... jackass!! hahaha