seven round liner

[ruttzzy]

this is what a seven round liner looks like tattooed on the forearm, with coloring coming soon, by a first time tattooist. what do you think?
next time i'll scale the pic.

[prosthetis]

did you post pic in the gallery?

[ruttzzy]

yes. also at address below. i hope this is allowed here.
thanks


http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w275/ruttzzy/strength.jpg

[MonkeyBlood]

Nice. Good lines. Just need to get those tips on the flames a little sharper.

[mozzer337]

this is what a seven round liner looks like tattooed on the forearm, with coloring coming soon, by a first time tattooist. what do you think?
next time i'll scale the pic.

Ruttzzy, did you ride the needle or the tube? I have been lining with a 5rl but I cant seem to get consistent line strength. Yours looks solid. I seem to get better as the I get further into the Tattoo. Im guessing its because I dont Tattoo regularly. I take my time with each job I do (it can be weeks between tats) so it could be that im not getting enough consistent practice on real skin. Im fine on pigskin, but with pigskin it seems I get good solid lines whatever the depth I penetrate, but on living tissue the depth has a lot more significance (blow outs, weakened lines, etc)

[ruttzzy]

thanks for the feedback. i rode the needle with approx. 3mm total needle length out bottom of tube with a-bar down paying very close attention to depth leaving approx 1mm space between tube and skin. the ink used was intenze true black. i am going to touch up flame tips with a 4 flat. putting in color soon.

[mozzer337]

i rode the needle with approx. 3mm total needle length out bottom of tube with a-bar down paying very close attention to depth leaving approx 1mm space between tube and skin.

Have I got this right?? your needle depth is approx 2mm into the skin. Thats quite deep. The average depth mentioned regularly on here is 1/32 which in metric equates to 0.75mm (if my conversion is correct)

And also what "throw" (needle movement from highest to lowest point) are you measuring. Im not questioning your methods, just curious as to what methods work for individuals.

[ruttzzy]

sorry for misinformation. you're right. recalculated, the total needle length (out tube tip) w/ a-bar down was approx. 2mm with only approx. 1.25mm entering skin. air gap is approx. 1mm and stroke length approx. 1.2mm.

[me_again]

sorry for misinformation. you're right. recalculated, the total needle length (out tube tip) w/ a-bar down was approx. 2mm with only approx. 1.25mm entering skin. air gap is approx. 1mm and stroke length approx. 1.2mm.


How can you have 2mm hanging out with Abar pressed down with a 1.2mm stroke... does that mean you have some needle hanging out the tube even when Abar is not pressed down?

[mozzer337]

If your riding the needle it wouldnt matter if the needle hung out slightly from the tube when the a-bar is off the coils, as long as you dont go deeper than neccessary, which could cause the needle to hang up. Riding the needle should be beneficial to anyone who wants to see the accuracy of their line work and to do this you need to have your tube off the skin far enough to see. The only issue I could see with the needle hanging out when the A -bar is up would be the needle not picking up enough ink.

Anyone care to ellaborate on my theories as some of this stuff is still new to me also???

[DGapp]

Yes. It's called riding the needle. You have to be very consistant in keeping the depth right. This is, in my experience, quite a difficult task. The other alternative is to ride the tube in which case, the needle is exposed only when the a-bar is down. You can see the lines better as you do them if the tube is not sliding on the skin (riding the needle). Hope that's not too confusing...

[MonkeyBlood]

I just don't see the benefit of riding the tube as it obscures your view and in most cases causes you to have a large pool of trailing ink on the skin. I do ride the tube sometimes when shading or filling in large areas of color. Riding the needle is a skill you have to develope with a lot of time and patience. Don't rush and pretty soon after doing a number of tattoos you'll naturally keep your needle at a good depth and be able to notice when your too deep or shallow. A seven can do nice sized lines or even smaller lines that seem like they were done by a five depending on how you use it. I also like a seven when dealing with real fatty/loose skin so I get the lines in without having to go over the same area a number of times. Fatty skin can be difficult even with a good stretch so the seven makes it a little easier. It's pretty versatile and I do about 80 percent of my lining work with it. I'm no expert but use what works for you.

[tin23uk]

your right monkeyblood riding the tube is a pain in the ass you cant see what your doing for the amount of ink all over the skin which then with the constant cleaning you end up with no stencil, the only benefit is that when you start out you know you cant go too deep and get blow outs. personally i think i would rather have a tattoo with the outline blown out a little than the finnished product ending up nothing like the stencil. but then you come into the whole complications of of too deep and overworked-longer healing time-more risk of infection.

[undercover art]

Ride the tube while learning, after you acheive good consistant results, start floating the needle. Don't rush development. Riding the tube can be a pain in the ass, but do it until you acheive a solid steady hand, then start experimenting with floating the needle. You'll never line any other way once you get it, but the only way to get it is to take time. Seven rounds are great, I use seven rounds to line everything thats over 2 square inches. The line actually comes out looking quite a bit slimmer than I initially expected.

[nativesoldier]

when riding the tube i find it easier to use diamond tips.

[tin23uk]

yeah diamonds would be alot better for visability as you can see where the needle is in comparason with your stencil, never tried them but im sure they would be easier, as for the mass of ink flowing out when the tube touches the skin, it still wouldnt help because the ink flow is down to the surface tension of the ink in the tip. just like a blob of water hanging from a tap, it stays there until you touch it.

[hotdiggitydawg]

Yeah i ride the the needle for somethings but mostly ride the tube now.
I went through a stage of wanting to ride the needle for everything but soon find out it's not really necessary. If your having trouble seeing lines. you should practices using your foresight (don't mean to sound like yoda lol) as long as you have confidence in how you machine works, how the needle sits in the tip and how it responds to different movements then you start reading a line ahead of your hand... use the force lol

If you're having trouble with excess ink flowing out the tip, don't put so much in! If you dip and run the machine to 'fill' the tip you'll end up squirting the excess all over the place, which will then jepodise the longivity of the stencil when wiping it away not to mention waste.
Why don't you just fill the tip halfway by not running the machine whilst dipping... or you could run the machine whilst dipping then blot the end of the tip with your wipe to draw out the excess (a cleaner way of wasting it). Either way you're going to dip the same amount of times.

Just sharing my experience, although six month down the line i'll be riding the needle again coz it'll be best way to go... preferences change in this funny ol' game lol

[kellyink]

If you're having trouble with excess ink flowing out the tip, don't put so much in! If you dip and run the machine to 'fill' the tip you'll end up squirting the excess all over the place, which will then jepodise the longivity of the stencil when wiping it away not to mention waste.
Why don't you just fill the tip halfway by not running the machine whilst dipping... or you could run the machine whilst dipping then blot the end of the tip with your wipe to draw out the excess (a cleaner way of wasting it). Either way you're going to dip the same amount of times.



i use 5's and 7's alot, and i ride the tube, because right now thats how i feel comfortable.
i typically use the same method.....dip the tip without running the machine, and use a little vaseline where im working.....less mess....cleans up better...now if im going to pull a long line i will dip the tip, and hit the pedel for a second just to get a little more ink in the resevoir, so i dont run out to quickly....and dry wipe so there is less chance of losing your stencil...if area get to covered with ink use a new paper towel with a little greensoap, or dettol, whatever you use, and quickly wipe over area just enough to see your stencil without wiping it away.........just how i do it

[femme]

i find it impossible to ride the tube, i tried it a few times but have to stop and change my set up so i can ride the needle again, i might give diamond tips a go

[pookie]

i assume when your riding the needle you dont run the machine when dipping it in the ink cap.I always run mine when filling up and found it a problem doing the same method while riding the needle incase i caught the bottom of the cap.

[johnnynotoes]

never really had a problem with hitting the bottom of the ink cap when riding the needle meself. i have started to throw in the basic outline riding the tube kind of thing then adjusting and riding the needle and thickening up lines where necessary. working for me at the moment like.

[pookie]

not a bad idea that, might try it myself