This shading is quite a bitch

[pookie]

Still struggling with shading even after reading all these threads.
I 1st started with dipping into a cup of water but found that difficult, so i cut my black into medium caps.
When i put the lightest grade in it was really black (2 drops in, rest water)
found out it was down to the ink i was using which was eternal triple black.
So i ordered some other ink off my supplier which he uses himself for shading,lining and black work.
I tried the same technique and yet im gettin the same results, they do heal up 'properly' but while im tattooing its like there all the same grade.
I tried contacting the bloke i ordered it off for advice but he's in hospital.
My machines set up correctly, soft hitting shader runnin at 7.5 volts usin a 7 spread mag.
Any ideas or tips guys?
im really starting to pull my hair out with it now lol

[Rockabillytattoo]

Try using Sumi greywash and premix a set of washes 100%, 75%, 50% and 25% and of course, keep a rinse cup handy. Make sure your machine is hitting soft and is on the slower speed side, this will give you time to slowly build up your gradations without overworking the skin. Good shading comes with lots of experience, something that you'll naturally, as you progress, get a feel for. You can also stay on the lighter side of things and once the piece is healed go back and darken things up if needed. Stay away from using a "fast" shader setup as you can do some serious damage on people's skin without the right technique.

[coggledots]

I've just bought some 'silverback' shading ink (4 shades in 2oz bottles), coz i was having the same trouble, aint tried it yet but it came highly recommended in a few places.

[pookie]

Looked on the link you sent me coggledots but it said only to registered studios.
Right without sounding thick here lol greywash......is it basically different shades of grey? or does it heal up lighter when the tattoo has healed like it does when cutting back black?
Hope that made sense lol

[coggledots]

WOW I must be registered then lol! Never noticed that anywhere on that site before? Greywash is just Black cut back, like you would do, it's not actually grey. Just more precise than your/our guess work.

[black raven]

hey pook, its all about trial and error. try keeping a journal on your findings.
being that water , witch hazel,and black pigment isn't very expensive, get yourself about a dozen 1 oz bottles and start mixing your own.try this...
lets start with the lightest, we'll label this bottle "1" .take the ink that you are using for lining and fill a medium size ink cup with it and add 1 of these to your 1 oz bottle. now either add rose water, witch hazel , brown Listerine. till the bottle is about 1/4 full. fill the rest with distilled water, a stainless steel sterilized mixing nut and shake well. put a piece of tape on the bottle and mark this one with a "1". use the steps above again for bottle "2" but add 3 med cap fulls of the black . on # 3 add 5 . now you have 3 different shades to start with. a light, a medium and a darker one. take a paper towel and and put a few drops from each bottle, allow to dry, and you will see the different hues.being that just about all black inks from different manufacturers are different strengths, you might need to add or subtract more black as stated above to achieve three different hues .the above recipe is only a guideline., but thats why the paper towel is important. once you have three distinct shades use them on your next b@g tattoo and record your results when tattooing AND the healed results.i find that adding a Little black to this bottle or a little water to that bottle you will quickly find what works for you. once you have the "magic mix" , once again you will have wrote the recipe down and you will have the paper towel as a reference when it comes time to make some more. this brings me to another point. black work must be layered in the skin, in other words very rarely do i ever use just one shade of wash on any of my tattoos. what i do is layer a very light hue in the skin and then layer a darker shade over that to create depth. be sure not to cover all the light you put in but just start at one spot and feather it Lightly over the light stuff to create a smooth blend from dark to light. try this with say under shadows to start with and work your way up to more complicated pieces.

[pookie]

WOW I must be registered then lol! Never noticed that anywhere on that site before? Greywash is just Black cut back, like you would do, it's not actually grey. Just more precise than your/our guess work.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me dude!

hey pook, its all about trial and error. try keeping a journal on your findings.
being that water , witch hazel,and black pigment isn't very expensive, get yourself about a dozen 1 oz bottles and start mixing your own.try this...
lets start with the lightest, we'll label this bottle "1" .take the ink that you are using for lining and fill a medium size ink cup with it and add 1 of these to your 1 oz bottle. now either add rose water, witch hazel , brown Listerine. till the bottle is about 1/4 full. fill the rest with distilled water, a stainless steel sterilized mixing nut and shake well. put a piece of tape on the bottle and mark this one with a "1". use the steps above again for bottle "2" but add 3 med cap fulls of the black . on # 3 add 5 . now you have 3 different shades to start with. a light, a medium and a darker one. take a paper towel and and put a few drops from each bottle, allow to dry, and you will see the different hues.being that just about all black inks from different manufacturers are different strengths, you might need to add or subtract more black as stated above to achieve three different hues .the above recipe is only a guideline., but thats why the paper towel is important. once you have three distinct shades use them on your next b@g tattoo and record your results when tattooing AND the healed results.i find that adding a Little black to this bottle or a little water to that bottle you will quickly find what works for you. once you have the "magic mix" , once again you will have wrote the recipe down and you will have the paper towel as a reference when it comes time to make some more. this brings me to another point. black work must be layered in the skin, in other words very rarely do i ever use just one shade of wash on any of my tattoos. what i do is layer a very light hue in the skin and then layer a darker shade over that to create depth. be sure not to cover all the light you put in but just start at one spot and feather it Lightly over the light stuff to create a smooth blend from dark to light. try this with say under shadows to start with and work your way up to more complicated pieces.

cheers black raven, im totally with what your saying.....i just needed a better guide to find those 'magic' grades i want, i'll find it much easier to ink if i can see the different grades.
I will give that a try though and get some ink ordered in....just deciding which to get, either talens silverback or sumi grey wash

[shovelhead]

one thing to keep in mind when mixing in the ink caps if you just drop a couple of drops of black and add water, it wont be very consistant unless its mixed real good thats why i have found it best to do as black raven suggested

[pookie]

ahh yes, that could explain a few things also.
Cheers

[Draven]

Personally I use Kuro sumi liner ink for all my washes. 5 large ink caps.
Lightest 1 drop sumi rest distilled water up to 4 drops. and the last cup straight intenze true black.
Your triple black will work for your solid black work but its to dark for washes.
Also adjust you stroke on your machine. Short stroke liner. Med stroke B+G. long stroke color.
Also long taper needles will help your blends and transitions a little smoother.
Hope this helps

[pookie]

i think my liner and shader have got the same stroke, i wnan try what black raven said...im just undecided which ink to go for, either talens or kuro sumi liner ink.
Any input much appreciatted guys

[SPANISH SCOUSER]

i think my liner and shader have got the same stroke, i wnan try what black raven said...im just undecided which ink to go for, either talens or kuro sumi liner ink.
Any input much appreciatted guys

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l248/spanishscouser/?action=view&current=P5270101.jpg just done this one with a black ink call one http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l248/spanishscouser/?action=view&current=ONEBLACK.jpg i had silver back before and it is realy good plus is ready made for you,but did run out and decided to give one a try cos joshua carlton mentioned on is book, i use 5 large ink caps 1,2,3,and 4 drops mix with destiled water and one just black have to wait till it heals to see how good it realy is.hope it helps

[shovelhead]

i use the kuro for outlines and i have a cheap black that i use for mixing my ink for shading, i found that even one drop of kuro in the cap and rest with distilled water was a little dark for some of the shading i wanted,with the cheap black one drop and rest distilled water when it healed it was just what i was looking for its easy to go back and make your shading darker but if its to dark it looks like shit.

[hijinx]

I use starbrite tribal black or lightning outlining ink for my wash and they both seem to cut good with distiled water. I still have a long way to go with my shade work though. am i better off sticking with flats and mags alone or should i throw in some rounds too? I get good transitons just cant keep it consestent.

[black raven]

http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l248/spanishscouser/?action=view&current=P5270101.jpg just done this one with a black ink call one http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l248/spanishscouser/?action=view&current=ONEBLACK.jpg i had silver back before and it is realy good plus is ready made for you,but did run out and decided to give one a try cos joshua carlton mentioned on is book, i use 5 large ink caps 1,2,3,and 4 drops mix with destiled water and one just black have to wait till it heals to see how good it realy is.hope it helps

nice job span,however this is an example of what i was explaining above. using one hue or shade of wash makes it look flat and lifeless.. just by going in and layering a darker wash over your lite base adds depth, such as like this...
http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tat2er1/?action=view&current=IMG_0499.jpg
i have tried "one" in the past and its a really good all around ink, makes great wash, lining, and tribal pieces

[pookie]

Well ive ordered sumi outline ink and lots of 1ozbottles to experiment with,
will keep posted on the outcome.
I found rounds arent good for shading unless its a small piece, i just use spread mags for the job now

[SPANISH SCOUSER]

nice job span,however this is an example of what i was explaining above. using one hue or shade of wash makes it look flat and lifeless.. just by going in and layering a darker wash over your lite base adds depth, such as like this...
http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/tat2er1/?action=view&current=IMG_0499.jpg
i have tried "one" in the past and its a really good all around ink, makes great wash, lining, and tribal pieces
i can see the diference btw the tattoos raven my tatt look unfinish,my problem at the moment is that am unshore wen it comes to the dark shade just in case it end up to dark,i do prefer doing b@g beter than color but i do need more practice till i can do work as realistic as yours,thanks for the advise

[L_Pease]

i think my liner and shader have got the same stroke, i wnan try what black raven said...im just undecided which ink to go for, either talens or kuro sumi liner ink.
Any input much appreciatted guysTalens is very black and may take some getting used to. I use it religiously and dip between my rinse cup and straight black most of the time. Sometimes I will take a 3/4 oz. paper cup (I use them for ink cups) and fill it about half full of water then touch my finger-tip into the black and then the water. It will instantly transfer from the glove to the water. Seems to be just the right amount to get that perfect light shade. I tend to build my greys from almost nothing up to the desired tone. It's a lot like doing ink washes with a brush and india ink and water. If you very gently start out with a light mix and work the area then go back with more black it will stain the lighter areas giving you a very soft blend like pre-wetting the paper with water colors.

One thing about the first post where you said the tattoos heal up looking correct but not while doing them might be to keep in mind that the redness of the skin makes lighter shading appear dark and almost bruised making it difficult to tell how dark it is in reality. The more you do it the more you will get a feel for it. Buying pre-mixed black seems like a waste of money to me.

[pookie]

cheers for the input dude, iunderstnd what you say with the similarity of indian ink and brush work as ive done some recently.
Ive been unable to do much shaded pieces since this post but ive nearly got my inks how i want them and my shader just needs abit of fine tweaking.